AdviceChoose Your CityColumnsNewsSan FranciscoSex and DatingSlider

Full Disclosure: A Straight Person Being Kicked Out of a Gay Bar

SF Mix Bar Full Disclosure Eric Barry

Many, many great things happened for both SF and nationwide LGBT communities this past week. There was something truly remarkable seeing the streets of San Francisco Wednesday night filled not in protest or rallying cry, but in celebration. It was a stark contrast to the night of November 4, 2008 when the city erupted with bittersweet joy for Obama’s win, while letting the agony of the passing of Proposition 8 sink in. Some years later, I’m now skeptical to celebrate progress that isn’t concrete. Obama was an idea, one that proved rather ineffectual against the principals that had us elect him in the first place, high-fiving and hugging in the streets because things were going to change. Every step for social justice is a step in the right direction, but it doesn’t mean that things are now better than they should’ve been in the first place.

But last Wednesday was different. This was a change that was palpable, and just two days later, we saw couples lining up outside City Hall to enact that change.

I can’t think of a time I’ve been so excited to celebrate Pride. The Supreme Court rulings and the gorgeous weather (rare for June in SF) only further charged what’s already one of the most powerful celebrations in the city.

So when the girl I’m dating was kicked out of of a gay bar on Pride, being told it was because she has a vagina, it was a real kick in the not-vagina.

It happened at The Mix (one of my all-time favorite bars) Sunday night. We had been drinking. Lots. But there were no blackouts, there was no stumbling. It had been a weekend full of friends and a positive energy I hadn’t seen in this city in some time.

The short version [jump to the end of the article for the full story] is this: shortly after entering The Mix, the girl I’m dating wasn’t allowed to accompany me to the bathroom because the bouncer feared she was going to sneak from the bathroom to their back patio, instead of waiting in line to get there. She pressed as to why I was allowed to use the bathroom and not her, asking if it was because she was a woman, to which he responded “yes” and then promptly called for two bouncers to come over and kick us out. We were in the bar no more than 90 seconds and were refused to have our cover refunded. Then the bouncer literally physically threatened me, charging towards me with his fist cocked back, which prompted the cashier outside the bar to step in to prevent him from hitting me. I have video of the altercation on my iPhone.  The cashier outside assured me many, many times that he would call me the next day to sort the situation out and talk to the appropriate people about the rest of the staff’s behavior. I have yet to receive any such phone call.

I understand that it’s Pride, and I understand that gay bars have an immense amount of stress placed on them during this time. I’m sure The Mix had dealt with plenty of drunk assholes all weekend, and the ability to discern who’s actually a drunk asshole and who’s not probably gets a little muddied over time. But that said, being a bouncer isn’t an excuse to flaunt the excessive power you’re given, especially not when the professed reason is because someone is a straight woman who’s at a gay bar.

This isn’t the first time I’ve been kicked out of a gay bar. My (female) friends and I once were looking for a place to dance on a Tuesday night, and we decided on Q Bar. Once we arrived, we saw a banner out front that mentioned it was ladies night and they were offering 2-for-1 drinks. Upon entering, my friends began dancing as I went to order the group alcohol. When the bartender told me the total, something didn’t seem right – the drinks were awfully expensive for a 2-for-1 special. When I inquired, the bartender informed me that “only women get 1/2 off drinks”, a statement that wasn’t advertised on any of the promotional material or the website (I later checked). I told her that I was buying the drinks for my female friends, and pointed towards them, to which they waved back. She said I could only get the drink specials if one of the girls came over and talked to her, but for now, I had to pay full price. I told her she could keep the drinks – in part because I was indignant and in part because I literally didn’t have enough money. She told me I had to pay, I said I couldn’t, and I walked away, leaving the drinks at the bar.

I approached my friends who asked where the drinks were. I calmly told them, “I think I’m about to be kicked out of here in about 60 seconds.” And that’s exactly what happened. All the way out as the bouncer escorted me, women in the bar who had no idea why I was being kicked out began cheering, telling the bouncer to throw my ass out. They didn’t know anything that had transpired, but in their minds, I was a man being kicked out, which meant that must’ve been the right thing to do, and so forming a lynch mob seemed justified. [Listen to Dr. Carol Queen’s perspective on this here.]

I understand creating a safe space and having a place where people feel that they can hang out with people who they might wanna fuck and who want to fuck them. But it sends a very complicated and difficult message to LGBT allies when they’re basically told “you’re not welcome here.” Should straight people stay out of the Castro? Should gay people not go to straight bars? Should Q Bar be telling men that discriminating drink prices based on someone’s genitals is the truly progressive way to go? Or does that just sound like a gay version of a ladies night at some douchey straight club?

Most of the time, my gay friends feel comfortable at straight bars and my straight friends feel comfortable at gay bars. But those times when it’s not the case, it’s just fucking lame to see from a city like San Francisco.

Good things are happening in the fight for equality. But as we continue that fight we need to realize something: progress is not a zero-sum game. The rights gained by one person are not predicated upon the loss of another’s. Shaming or making someone feel less than welcome because of their gender is not a way to endorse the victories that we’re all celebrating right now.

FREE porn pick of the week (NSFW): School For Young Ladies Gangbang

Full Disclosure podcast Episode 46: BBW Karla Lane
For more Full Disclosure updates be sure to like us on Facebook and follow me on Twitter

Full version of what happend at The Mix:

We waited in the long line that formed down 18th Street, something that while rare for The Mix is to be expected during pride. Once we made our way to the front, Brian the Cashier told us there was a $2 cover. Again, rare for The Mix, but it’s Pride and what’s $2 anyway (as it’ll turn out, a lot to this establishment).

In the time we were waiting I had grown hungry, and on our way in I asked the Bouncer if we would have to wait in line again if we left to get food.

“No, just show your stamp when you come back.” Sounded easy enough.

Once we got inside, we were confronted with an additional line to get into the back patio, which is really the main reason to go to The Mix in the first place. Whatever, it’s Pride, but my bladder sure as hell wasn’t going survive what looked to be an additional 20 minute wait in line.

I approached the Patio Door Guy with the Girl and told him I needed to use the restroom, which is unisex with multiple stalls. He said that was fine, and we proceeded towards the bathroom when the Girl was stopped.

“Where are you going?” he asked.
“The back patio,” she responded, having not heard that I had asked to use the restroom.
“You need to go to the back of the line,” he says.
“No no, we’re both going into the bathroom together,” I clarify.
“She already told me she wants to go to the patio, I’m not letting her in there,” he snaps back.
“You can watch us walk into the bathroom right now. I promise you we’ll come back out and go to the back of the line.” I’m starting to feel ridiculous.
“You can go, but she has to go to the back of the line.”
“I don’t understand. Why can he go in the bathroom, is it because I’m a woman?” She asks.
“Yes. Now go to the back of the line.” The Patio Door Guy’s words leave the Girl and I in a moment of shock.
“This isn’t fair. You can’t do this just because I have a vagina.”

Not more than that moment of shock had passed when the Patio Door Guy yells to the bar, “I’m going to need two bouncers! NOW! These people need to leave immediately!”

Bouncer 2 runs out from behind the bar and promptly escorts us towards the entrance. “You’re not moving fast enough!” he yells at us. We co-operated the entire time. I asked him to treat us like reasonable human beings. He said he didn’t understand what that had to do with us leaving the bar, and yelled again for us to move faster (which at this point would’ve required us literally jogging out of the bar).

We were inside all of 90 seconds, if that. Once we’re back outside we explain the situation to the Cashier, and ask if we can have our $4 back. He says he doesn’t have the authority to do that. The Bouncer (who’s probably about 6’3) begins to move towards me aggressively, and then cocks his fist back, as though readying a punch. I immediately pull out my phone to begin recording whatever the fuck weirdness is about to ensue, backing up as he continues at me with his fist. The Cashier pulls the back of his shirt and pleads for him to back down along with the Girl, which he reluctantly does (at this point I’ve begun to film).

From there we were told that an owner is needed in order to issue us a refund, and that if we gave him our name and number, he promised to call and sort everything out the next day. I hand him my card, and tell him I’d be happy to discuss the situation on my podcast or in an article, to which he says “no no no!” and again promises to call me the next day and sort everything out. I have yet to receive any phone call.

video transcript:

B (fist cocked): Don’t take pictures of me, okay?!
G (stepping in): Hey hey hey!
C (stepping in): I’m sorry. We don’t have the authority to – I’ll tell you this right now, I can’t offer you $4 right now. I’m not in the position – I have to talk to the manager, or the owner.
E: Tell the manager that she was seriously was not allowed in there, and that HE was physically threatening us.
G: Can I talk to the manager
C: Ugh, she’s not in right now, but if you wanna give me your name and your number.

E: We’ll send her the video of him threatening us, and us being kicked out because she has a vagina and that’ll be fine.
C: No no no – I’ll tell you right now. Please give your phone # I’ll write it down right now.”[E gives C card]E: I’ll talk about it on the podcast and the articles I write and that’ll be fine.
C: Alright thank you. No no, we don’t – I’m Brian. Nice to meet you.
G: I’m not trying to be – We;re not trying to be threatening or ….. And the guy was gonna let Eric go in, and he told me I could not go, and the reason why is because of my vagina.
C: If you let me talk to you guys tomorrow. Like today is a very busy day for us.
E: Of course it is.
G: It’s a big day for everyone. We’re celebrating pride. We’re all celebrating pride.
C: I will give you a call tomorrow, I promise. I promise I’ll give you a call tomorrow.
E: I believe you.
C: And I will talk to you about this tomorrow.
Like this article? Make sure to sign up for our mailing list so you never miss a goddamn thing!
Previous post

THE VISTAS OF SAN FRANCISCO: Pairing Bernal Heights Park with Moylan's Irish Style Red Ale

Next post

BAS 2013 PRIDE IN PICTURES- DOMA/ PROP 8 Go Down; Drag In the Academy; Sexing Thru SoMa; MORE! Partying and Hard Frenching

Eric Barry - Cashless Comedian

Eric Barry - Cashless Comedian

Eric Barry is a San Francisco comedian, writer, and founder of Full Disclosure, a media site dedicated to sex and comedy.

He is a self-professed beer snob and pesto aficionado, and is incapable of lying, which has led to him shooting himself in the foot many times. He is currently seeking bulletproof shoes and thinks you and he would go great with fondue.

  • KM

    Queer bars have historically housed the few and far between safe spaces for queer people to feel welcomed and find community. While Pride is “welcoming” to everybody–queer people and their “allies”–it is not “for” everybody: it is specifically a day (or week) to celebrate and commemorate our community and the violence and marginalization queer people have overcome. Every other day of the year is “straight pride” day. So reading this article really irks me because you are basically whining about two incidences when you were denied access to a safe space that is not meant for you, and further are so steeped in your privilege, can’t seem to acknowledge that the access you feel you deserve to these spaces has traditionally (and in many places still is) denied to LGBT people everywhere. I’m not saying that this bouncer was right to treat you and your girlfriend the way he did–but the fact that you went out of your way to write a sob story about how mean the gays were to you on pride is fucking ridiculous when not too long ago, even in SF, queer bars were being raided by cops and queer people were being beaten and attacked for going to gay bars.

    And for the record, everyone knows Tuesdays at Qbar is “ladies night”–one of the few nights for specifically queer women to gather without having to worry about straight guys hit on them. And yes, drinks are only 2 for 1 for “ladies” on that night and have always been . Even my gay dude friends don’t get a pass on that night if they’re buying drinks for themselves.

  • KM thanks for your response. So what would you propose? Should straight people be allowed into gay bars? What do you mean that the Mix isn’t “meant” for us? Are we forced to separate from our gay friends?

    I don’t know every bar’s schedule, nor did my friends; we had no idea what night was what, we were just looking for a dive bar to dance at in our neighborhood. Again – it just rings of a douchey straight club that discriminates based on gender.

  • If you’re looking at what goes on in bars as some kind of clue as to what is going on among gays in general, then that’s just plain strange. Bars are crappy horrible places that have a high ratio of crappy horrible people in them. Its where people go to put intoxicants in their body, act rude, and find sex. Why would anyone, gay or straight, think that what happens in a bar (again, gay or straight), was indicative of anything other than crappy crap that happens in a crappy place.

  • Dave Massey

    Do I have to wear a dress if I want to get kicked out of a bar with you?

  • beerwad

    Straight people go to gay bars all the time, and it’s fine. Reading these two stories, it doesn’t seem to me like the reason you were kicked out of these bars is because you’re straight, or because your girlfriend has a vagina. In the case of the Mix, I’m not sure what their reasoning was for kicking you out, but I suspect that the guy was being facetious when he said it was because she had a vagina. That’s obviously not the real reason. It seems pretty unfair, but who knows, maybe you were acting like drunk assholes without realizing or remembering.

    In the case of the Q Bar, you were clearly acting like a dick. What do you think “ladies night” means? Drink specials for LADIES. I don’t think it was unreasonable for the bartender to request that your lady friends be present during the ordering of the drinks. It was, however, unreasonable of you to order drinks, have the bartender make them, and then not pay for them. Dick move.

    And interesting how you say in the comment above, “I don’t know every bar’s schedule, nor did my friends; we had no idea what night was what, we were just looking for a dive bar to dance at in our neighborhood,” because in the actual post you say, “we saw a banner out front that mentioned it was ladies night.” So you did know it was ladies night.

    And LOL at calling Q bar a “dive bar.”

    Quit being so sensitive, you’re welcome to go to whatever gay bar you want to, just respect the bar staff and don’t act like an entitled dick.

  • @Dave – it would be my pleasure.
    @beerwad – RE: The Mix – again, I wasn’t blacked out and I have video footage of the conversation outside just after the bouncer charged me.

    RE: Q Bar I thought “Ladies Night” at a gay bar means it’s lesbian themed – not that men were not allowed or that drink specials were only for gay women. We didn’t know this until we took the bus over there. So were my friends supposed to walk in and just leave me outside? Are straight people not welcome at gay bars? How exactly does one check/determine that by the way? How am I supposed to pay for drinks I don’t have the money for them given that they were advertised as less?

    Q bar has never exactly been “upscale” when I’ve been there. It’s always had disgusting floors that smell like piss and even worse bathrooms.

  • Gino

    Hey Eric. I feel you on this article. Especially the violence bit — sucks, thats BS, unacceptable. With that said, I’m a *straight* guy, living in the Castro (which is a wonderful neighborhood in every way), and I’m with KM on this one.

    It’s really, really easy for straight people to avoid gay* bars. While places like Churchill (or Blackbird even) are a solid “mix” of folks, the Mix… is a specifically gay bar, IMHO. And I can totally see why gay people would flinch a little at having the straight folks move into the gayest bars in the city. I’m not saying they should… but I think it’s perfectly natural to feel that way. And I think it’s respectful to honor that, when you can. Sounds like you can.

    I can imagine what KW is talking about. And out of respect, I don’t hang out in the bars in my neighborhood (even if I would like to play pinball at Moby Dick!) and have to walk a few blocks for a good beer.

    *Re: “gay” vs “queer.” KM likes the word queer, and so do I… but that is an increasingly inclusive term, and it’ll be hard to be inclusive of queerness and exclusive of “straight” people. SF is full of “queer” straight people… which is a great thing.


  • Gino, my question is *should* people be avoiding bars based on their sexuality? Should I not be going out and socializing with my gay friends and vice versa? What about when I write a play about gay rights with a 1/2 gay cast – do we segregate where we have our wrap parties?

    I think the truly progressive society would be one where we can all unite, regardless of sex or gender or race. When I go out to gay bars, it’s not to “take away” from the experience of another man being with me, it’s to join my friends and celebrate what’s been a battle we’ve both been fighting, and do so at a venue we both like.

  • Gino

    E… thanks for the reply.

    (Listening to your radio show right now, BTW… great show! Thank you.)

    >> Gino, my question is *should* people be avoiding bars based on their sexuality?

    I don’t speak for anyone but me… and with that said, yes. : ] I think I should stay out of gay bars, unless I’m with a mostly gay group. That happens to be my preference, but even if it wasn’t, it would be respectful to keep that in mind. And the key bit of what I’m suggesting is the “sexuality” element. I don’t know if there’s such a thing as a gay restaurant…and I think that’s because food-joints aren’t that sexual in nature. Bars, are a different story.

    Jason S above is wrong about bars (IMHO), plenty of great people in bars (duh). But I *do* think there’s a courtship element to bars, and in a gay bar, it’s gay courtship, and *for me*, I don’t want to water that down with my “straightness.” Of course bars are not *only* about sex, but a sexual approach is much more “normal’ in a bar, and I can see why gay folks would prefer to keep the straight sexuality out of the few places fly a rainbow flag out front. And I respect that… straight folks have so many options, I don’t need to fight my way into those spaces.

  • KM

    I made a distinction between “welcoming” “allies” (an aside–I hate this word because it suggests that straight people should get a pat on the back for possessing basic human decency–but for the sake of brevity and argument I will use it) and being “for”–meaning serving the purpose(s) of a specific community– which already answers your stupid question of whether or not straight people should be allowed in gay bars. All queer bars I know welcome cis, heterosexual people, but they are not “for”–again meaning they don’t serve the purposes of–straight people. The real question should be, if you have every single other bar that is not “gay” in the city at your disposal (the overwhelming majority), why do you feel the need to be entitled to a space which is not “for” you? I advise all my straight friends who accompany me to queer bars to simply be aware of their privilege and the space they are taking up in a place that is not “meant” for them (in short, don’t be an asshole and feel entitled to do whatever you want, like say use the bathroom with your girlfriend, or buy half-priced drinks even though it’s ladies night).

    As far as your dopey “we are all part of the human race” comment: I find the people who want to elide sexual, racial, gender, etc., difference in the name of “humanity” tend to be the ones who benefit the most from a society that perpetuates the systemic marginalization of minorities who do not fit the straight-white-cis-male-able bodied hegemonic mold and have never had to suffer violence because of their gender, sexual orientation, or race, etc. You can yell the we-all-bleed-red liberal mantra all you want, but it doesn’t change the fact that some of us bleed more than others (are proportionally targeted more for violence and imprisonment and have less housing, health care, opportunities, etc.)–in fact it tries to cover up that systemic inequality and violence.

  • KM, right. I guess when I use the word “allies” I’m talking about people who are actively fighting the fight, and that tends to be how my gay friends think of it.

    Speaking of which, you don’t need to belittle or cut down said allies. Of course I believe straight people should be allowed in gay bars – but your responses have begged the question, which many have pointed out the California Unruh Act in response to this. In that same vein, being discriminately denied use of a restroom based on sex doesn’t seem like it’s legal. And again, if a gay bar wants to co-opt douchey ladies night policies that also discriminate based on sex and sexual orientation (how do they check that?), that’s their m.o.

    Some do bleed more than others – if you’ve read any of my articles, listened to my podcasts, seen my plays, etc, you’d know I’m a huge LGBT advocate. But again if you listen to Dr. Carol Queen, a preeminent voice in the queer and feminist movement (since you don’t seem to want to give me any concessions), she strongly disagrees with your stance. Progress is not a zero-sum game, which was the point of the article. I’m not the enemy here.

  • @ Gino, I guess given what I do I know a lot of queer people. I could cut ties with them though and stop going to our favorite bars 🙂 Bear in mind I’ve also been a male escort, and the Mix is a favorite joint of theirs, too. When I tell the I’m straight, they’v all the more apt to want to bring me to the Castro to parade around.

    And thanks for the compliment on the show. It’s been a ton of fun and I’ve met some really iconic people who have written far more books than I could ever read on this very subject.

  • KM

    You possess a truly astounding penchant for making everything about you! And Dr. WhoeverTheFuck doesn’t speak for me or the queer community. I’m merely giving you my opinion (and the opinion of the many people I know in the queer community) as well as the inarguable facts of our daily experiences. You can chose to recognize your privilege and learn from what I’m sharing with you (god knows I have no “duty” to share my experience with you) or you can continue being defensive and justifying your disrespectful actions. Seems like you chose the latter so good luck being such a great “ally”

  • Gino


    >> your stupid question
    >> your dopey … comment

    ^this is all “violence” and takes away from the strengths of your comments. I think there is an opportunity to for education in this thread, I personally learned some terms from you in this discussion… but arguing against “violent” majorities with your own version of violence (even verbal) isn’t your only choice… and typically spurs on more violence (verbal and otherwise).

    Eric’s being respectful, over and over again, he just doesn’t agree with you (or me).

  • Sugar

    Okay okay KM’s first reply is too funny not to respond.

    First of all, you are so concerned about getting hit on by straight guys, that you need your own place to not have to worry about that? It shouldn’t be a newsflash that the straight men in SF are not attracted to SF lesbians. Women with hair shorter than shoulder length are literally invisible to me. Some of these women may be straight/bi, but I can’t be bothered. The problem isn’t lesbians getting hit on, it’s that only the most desperate guys are doing it. You get the total abject losers. The average SF straight guy with options is NOT INTERESTED.

    Second of all, when was the last time a queer person in SF was harassed by a straight person? It doesn’t happen. Someone doing that would be totally ostracized by the generally fair-minded, social justice-minded SF public. Harassing a minority would be a one-way ticket to pariah-ville. The reverse scenario is far more likely to happen – gay men are constantly testing straight men in social situations to see if they have any freakin’ game. Although it’s usually done in a good-natured way…

    Third, I have had men flirt with me a hundred times, not in gay bars. By the above logic, these men should be thrown out of the *our* places. See how ridiculous that sounds?

    Fourth, since we’re taking an isolationist approach to queer bars, should a straight girl still get 2 for 1 drinks at the lex on ladies night? Should a bi girl have to buy three drinks to get one free? Let’s see how us-and-them we can make this, right

  • Audrina

    I’m kind of late to the party responding to this blog post since I just came across it, but I do feel compelled to throw in my 2 cents…

    Regarding The Mix, it seems pretty clear to me in the more detailed version of your story (which comes conveniently at the end of the blog post after your points have been made) that the reason why the bouncer kicked you out is because (a) your female friend attempted to cut through the line in the patio and (b) the two of you kept on pestering the bouncer about it. It’s the busiest night of the year for the bar, and I can guarantee you that none of the staff are interested in putting up with anyone’s bullshit. Chances are you weren’t the first people to try to sneak into the patio that night. Chances are you weren’t the last ones. The remark about your friend being a girl was likely sarcasm. At that point, the bouncer probably just wanted you to shut up and stop bothering him. I have to say that it was a classy move for you to video tape the poor door man and threaten to write about the incident in your blog and podcast. That ranks right up there with people who threaten business owners with writing bad reviews about them on Yelp. Did you do that, too? It was painful watching that (poor quality) video and the way you and your girlfriend basically backed the door man into a corner. I imagine that if you acted that way towards the bouncer, it’s no surprise he kicked you out.

    In regards to Q Bar, it was Ladies Night. Ladies Night means ladies–meaning you must have a vagina, ovaries, etc.—get free or discounted drinks or cover charge. This is an extremely common promotional event that gay and straight bars, clubs and other businesses have used for decades all around the country. For crying out loud, there’s an entry about “ladies night” in Wikipedia if you want to look it up. Seems kind of ironic that you write for a blog that advertises free and cheap events, and you don’t know what ladies night is… The fact that you and your friends didn’t know the terms of ladies night is *not the club’s fault*. Not paying for the drinks was a douchey thing to do. Your statement that “I was indignant” sounds like an attitude problem to me. All that said, sorry you got jeered as you were being kicked out. But before you accuse everyone of sexism, you should probably know that it’s not all that uncommon for people to get jeered at as they’re being kicked out of the club. Why? In part because it’s kind of funny and people gravitate to being mean, but also because most people have faith that a bouncer is kicking you out for good reason. Here’s a thought: you should’ve asked to talk to the bar’s manager, videotaped the incident and threatened to write about it in your blog and podcast. I’m sure that would’ve made everyone more sympathetic.

    If it sounds like I’m being snarky, it’s because this blog post reads as a feeble attempt to excuse the mistakes you and your friends made and rationalize that the bar staff’s response was some kind of weird reverse discrimination. You seriously need to develop a little more self-awareness and realize the consequences of your actions. It’s upsetting to me that these incidents are being used as examples of gay people being discriminatory towards straight people. Come on… This website can do better than that.

  • Porter

    Excuse me, you’re not going to like this, but I fucking HATE straight people who think they are showing support by occupying our spaces. No matter how many times I read blogs and other bullshit on-line about the issues, it never ceases to amaze how downright fucking insensitive gay-friendly people (I’ll substitute for straight people, since most straight people operate in straight circles) are for thinking its OK to impose themselves on our spaces. It’s not OK, it’s not appreciated, and you are highly resented by gay people who have to tolerate you at these places where you are NOT wanted.

    Being said, I have my reasons for the way I feel and do not feel the need to justify why that they are. If you are gay person (as the KM poster is), you will understand why I feel this way (and not need an explanation), because you can empathize with me as a GAY person in a way that a gay-friendly person cannot. Yeah, gay-friendly people can sympathize with gay feelings (awe, gay people must have been marginalized), but you cannot empathize with how we feel because you are ONLY ‘gay-friendly’ and NOT a gay person. For example, I can have sympathy for a black person (racism must be bad) but that does NOT mean I can have empathy for them and use the N word because I am NOT fucking black and will never know what’s it like to be so. Just because I can get in touch with their feelings and want to fight for a cause does NOT mean I am their equal and can relate to them in a way that justifies my using the N word, even though some black people use the word themselves. Get it?

    Also, in trying to make sense of the madness, I was wondering why the hell was it that enticed gay-friendly people to wont to be in gay places as much as they do. To obtain answers, I came across the same ole bullshit (that makes straights seem even more like entitled pieces of shit) that involved the same reasons. Straight people go to gay bars because:
    # 1. Gay bars are fun
    # 2. Women go to gay bars to escape men, and there is less competition
    # 3. The music is better and drinks are cheaper
    # 4. They support their gay friends

    # 1. Gay bars are more fun?
    Out of the hundreds of thousands of bars that cater to straight people, you mean to tell me that you cannot find one that is appealing? Are you trying to convince me that you have not been at one that you thought was fun? What is it about gay bars that you cannot find at straight bars?

    In each city there may be a few hundred bars and out of the bars, maybe five will be for gay people. Why is it that you can have more fun at these gay bars but not at the 295 bars? Are straight people that boring, lame and or stupid that you do not know how to have a good time in a bar? Seriously?

    # 2 Women go to gay bars
    To keep from punching someone in the face, this one almost makes me shit my pants from laughing at its stupidity. Straight men ( in there poorly planned attempt at justifying occupying a same sex establishment) justify going to gay bars to pick straight women.

    OK, are you guys that fucking desperate or inadequate that you have to go to a same sex establishment to pick up the opposite sex? Is it that hard to ask out a straight woman that you have to resort to a gay space to do it? Really, it cant be that hard because I am a gay man (with no interest in women) and I get hit on allllll the time by women at Wal-Mart, Starbucks, parties, etc and I don’t even try or spend money to do it.

    Also, supposedly, said straight women go to gay bars SO THAT they will NOT get hit on by men. Are you that retarded or socially inept to understand that the women at these gay places (whether straight or gay) choose not to be hit on which is their reason for going to said place? Like, you know straight women go to gay bars to get away from straight men, but yet you follow them to hit on them anyways, knowing you are doing the exact opposite of what she wanted to happen? You are that fucking desperate to land a chick, when I as a gay man can do it while waiting in line at fucking Taco Bell without even trying? What the fuck kind of a straight man are you when a gay man can get a girl faster than you can, without pissing off an entire population of people.

    This is bullshit because I know for a fact you do not have to go to gay bars to get women because there are plenty are straight bars who are looking for dates. My best friend is one of those girls and everytime I have gone to a bar with her, she shows off her boobs and then BAM, she has straight men buying her drinks and chatting her up. Guys, women will make it known when they are interested in you. If you want a woman, do not go to gay bars to get one. It’s suspect and you are going for all the wrong reasons

    # 3 The music is better and the drinks cheaper
    Really? Out of the thousands of straight bars who pay djs damn good money to play the latest hits, you cant find any music that you like at those that are not played at gay bars? With the four to five gay bars compared to two to three hundred straight bars, not one of them played good music? There’s rap, rock, country, techno and mix themed straight bars and not one of them has good music? I mean fuck, with gay bars you have techno (white) and hip hop (black) with the occasional latino bar and that’s it. At least with straight bars you get a better variety of music which is why it baffles my mind that somehow gay bars have better music. In fact, music soooo good that you would alienate yourself from other straight people and women so that you can enjoy gay music.

    Also, this is very funny, the drinks are cheaper at gay bars? Really? Somehow out of the thousands of straight bars versus two to five gay bars- our drinks are cheaper and the selection quality better? Are you fucking kidding me? First, most women drink for FREE at straight bars. Second, economics tells me that beer would be cheaper at straight bars due to having to compete with the hundreds of bars for the same people. Third, because there are so few gay bars, it is a know fact that gay bars can charge more for the booze because we have less options. Also, gay men (not all) are not very fond of beer and prefer mixed drinks. Last time I checked, most standard bars had the same whisky liquor selections, so your fucked stupid to think that the drinking at gay bars is cheaper, dumb fucks.

    Also, if you are that strapped for drinking money that you would have to go to a same sex establishment (where you are not wanted) to hit on women (who do not want you to hit on them), then your only gonna annoy the bartender because you will be too broke to leave a tip and should probably stay home because you cannot afford to go out and drink. Additionally, if you are that broke then it would be cheaper for you to buy a fucking six pack at the local grocery store.

    # 5 Support gay friends
    OK, I understand you want to support gay friends but sometimes it would be better to support them in another way. Becoming a regular at a gay bar and or being disrespectful at a gay bar while there to support gay friends is completely different from just showing support. An occasional visit or two is fine but fucking taking over the bar is another things

    Also, there are rules for straight people at gay bars that I wont go into. We find it extremely insensitive when you display PDA with your bf or gf in our gay places, hit on people of the opposite sex in gay places and or do anything else to make it KNOWN you are straight. When there, you are to drink, dance and enjoy the music and your friends company without imposing on someone else. Making out with your straight other at the bar is not one of those things. Go to a straight bar, or the movies, or the mall, or church or the game or the park to do that shit where all the other straight people do it. I can not watch a movie, or listen to a song, or read a book or read a newspaper or play a fucking video game within seeing or hearing something about fucking straight people or seeing them kiss or what the fuck ever; this includes at my job. Why the fuck do you think I want to go to a gay bar to watch the shit??? DONT FUCKING DO IT PIECE OF SHITS.

    Tired from typing, I just wanted to end it all by saying I don’t buy into the shit you say or the reasons you give for pissing straight people off. Many of you come to queer places because you are in fact queer yourselves and are so deep in the closet that you cant see. I don’t care how many women you make out with or pussy you eat in our bars, you are there because you like dick too. Also, the few of you who actually go that are straight, you go not to support gays but to satisfy your narcissistic need to be wanted, adored or idolized. For some reason, you want the satisfaction of being chased, or hit on or approached (like a woman would) and the gay bay is the way to test how ‘hot’ you are or how many ‘drinks’ you will be bought. It’s nothing more than an ego boost for you to demonstrate how ‘normal’ you are and apparently ‘superior’ you are (so worldly for openly accepting gays) for gracing us with your presents at a gay bar. You are fucking filth.

  • Hey man – looks like there’s a lot of hate you have there, which I’m sorry to here. But none of the reasons you believe straight people go to gay bars are the reason I go, nor were they what was cited in this article. I go to bars because I like them and it’s where me and my friends decide we want to go. Most of my male friends are gay and so we all go out together as friends, without caring about what each other’s sexual identity is. So when me and my best friend or roommate want to go out, sometimes they’ll come to the straight bar, sometimes I’ll go to the gay bar.

    I hope you find peace with your community, regardless of what kind of genitalia they’re attracted to. I’ll fight for you to be able to do so.

  • Porter

    OK, well, if my post comes off as ‘hateful’ then I am sorry it comes off that way to you. My intentions weren’t to communicate ‘hate’ but were to express the frustration and resentment I feel (as well as many other gays) when straight people occupy (for lack of a better word) gay places.

    After reading your reply, I noticed you did not refute my claims; but instead, you said ” … my comments were unrelated to your situation and that you go to gay bars because you ‘like’ to and that’s were you and your friends want to go.” Your are correct, my comments were directed at your incidents for being thrown out but were directed at the mentality that you (as you have demonstrated on this blog) and other straight people- that it’s OK to go because you want to go and because you like it. I may like to go to children’s parties for whatever reason, and I could go and not be stopped but that doesn’t refute the fact that it may be totally inappropriate for me to do so because of my age.

    More importantly, you say my reasons were unrelated to you (I mentioned these are the most common reasons I have found why straight people go) but yet you did not provide a specific reason. Further, ” I go because I like to” could mean many things but there has to be a specific something that you like. If there are two bars beside each other that offer the same music but different clientele, there would have to be a specific reason why I would choose one over the other- rather it be one has better music, hotter guys, a more related scene or cheaper prizes. Your choosing gay bars simply because you like them does nothing to support your point. You like them because? What do they offer you that the millions of straight bars don’t? Why would you like them so much that it would bother you to the extend that you would complain about it on-line?

    Lastly, that attitude of ‘I go because I want to go’ translates to us gays “I go because I do what the fuck I want to do and I don’t give a shit who doesn’t like it.” Apparently, your wanting to go because you like it (no other reasons) trumps any consideration for the people their, why they’re their or what impact your being that will have on them. Doing something just because you can, when you understand that doing that could adversely affect the well being and happiness of others, is a show of disrespect and privilege that my post was and KG’s comments were alluding to regarding straight people in gay places. It’s that attitude that we despise, because we feel our feelings should be respected, which many straight people like yourself have failed to acknowledge. So, you can take the ‘high road’ all you’d like and call me hateful, bitter or whatever but know that I speak the truth about how I feel which I cant say the same for straight people unwilling to pull themselves away from gay people. I do not hate straight people, nor do I wish for total segregation. I’d just appreciate more consideration and less entitlement from people who have everything but still want more.

    My comment wasn’t in response to your specific incident but was in reply to the attitude you and others have exuded, more specifically in your conversation with KM (where she gave her opinion why gay places are for gay people)

    which were unrelated to your incident. Instead, you said ‘I go to gay bars because I like them’ and that ‘you go to them because that’s where you and your friends want to go.’ Apparently, for lack of a reason, you’re telling us: you will go where you want to go, and that

  • Porter

    I know the difference between there/their/they’re …your/you’re …extend/extent – I should totally spell and grammar check most posts 🙂 sorry guys, fast typing.

  • Pingback: Broke-Ass Stuart Articles - Full Disclosure: Chicago's Sex Positive Podcast()